David Chang Has Always Tried to Pursue 'The Worst Possible Idea'

The chef, restaurateur, and media mogul opens up about maybe, finally, possibly learning to relax — a little.

David Chang and the Worst Possible Idea

Welcome to Season 1, Episode 6 of Tinfoil Swans, a new podcast from Food & Wine. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen and follow on: Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, Stitcher, iHeart Radio, Amazon Music, TuneIn.

On this episode

In our sixth episode, Food & Wine's executive features editor Kat Kinsman sits down with the multifaceted David Chang. In 2006, Food & Wine named him as one its Best New Chefs, but no one could have predicted the impact that his restaurants, books, consumer products, TV shows, podcasts, magazine, and more would have on food culture — least of all Chang, who didn't expect to live past 35. Ten years past that self-predicted end, the chef who was once as well-known for his volatile temper as his groundbreaking food is finding himself more comfortable in his own skin, but it's a work in progress. Chang opened up about anger, aging, letting go of being cool, being kinder to himself, and an unexpected apology he'd like to make.

Related: 18 David Chang Recipes to Try

Meet our guest

David Chang is a 2006 F&W Best New Chef and the founder of the Momofuku restaurant group and line of packaged goods, as well as Majordomo Media, which produces shows and podcasts like Ugly Delicious, The Dave Chang Show, Recipe Club, Secret Chef, and more. He is the author of the cookbooks Momofuku and Cooking at Home: Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying About Recipes (And Love My Microwave) (co-written with Priya Krishna), as well as the memoir Eat a Peach.

Meet our host

Kat Kinsman is executive features editor at Food & Wine, author of Hi, Anxiety: Life With a Bad Case of Nerves, host of Food & Wine's podcast, and founder of Chefs With Issues. Previously, she was the senior food & drinks editor at Extra Crispy, editor-in-chief and editor at large at Tasting Table, and the founding editor of CNN Eatocracy. She won a 2020 IACP Award for Personal Essay/Memoir and has had work included in the 2020 and 2016 editions of The Best American Food Writing. She was nominated for a James Beard Broadcast Award in 2013, won a 2011 EPPY Award for Best Food Website with 1 million unique monthly visitors, and was a finalist in 2012 and 2013. She is a sought-after international keynote speaker and moderator on food culture and mental health in the hospitality industry, and is the former vice chair of the James Beard Journalism Committee.

Advice from the episode

Defying expectations

There was no indication that I was gonna do anything great so opening up that restaurant [Momofuku Noodle Bar], it was a therapy in a lot of ways, but it was also a mindset where I honestly, I was like, "I'm doing this because I'm gonna be dead pretty soon. I'm gonna go so hard that there's no regret when it all ends."

Perfectly imperfect

I think I'm only trying to finally come into my own now. I'm getting to be comfortable in my own skin. Perfect to me, back then, was excellence done at a level that was European or three-Michelin-star or something like that. Perfect to me is Michael Jordan — you have the best athlete matched with the best work ethic and integrity. But I was listening to Hasan Minhaj say the most perfect thing to come out of like that Bulls dynasty was Steve Kerr, not Jordan, because he was able to change a culture from the Bulls where it was super intense, into a different way that's much more manageable. He learned and he grew.I really admire that. Perfect really is less about the physical results of it and more that can you grow, can you change, can you be perfect in your intent?

Chilling out

The result of being tired is me being forgiving to myself. A lot of age and miles have caused me to be tired. I realized I was tired because I cared about something. I was so ridiculously stupid. Caring about rankings and stars and position. Caring about being cool. It's so dumb, I think about this all the time. Most restaurants that we do or you visit — they're all still trying to be cool and relevant. It's like United Airlines versus Pan-Am; one's out of business and one's not. One wasn't trying to be cool. One was trying to be effective, and I just don't wanna spend any more time trying to be cool, trying to be relevant.

Freedom of choice

I'm really close with most of the Korean American chefs of my age, in their 40s. We all say the same thing: We all wanted to cook French food because that was established as good. We wanted nothing to do with Korean food or Asian cuisine, and I think that was reinforced by how we were raised. I'm so ecstatic that many people today that are entering the profession, they don't have that worry. They can choose what they want to learn, and what they want to cook, and what restaurant they want to be at because, like, there was no option back then. And as you said it, today, in New York City some of the best, most progressive Korean food is there. That makes me so happy.

Rebel with a cause

These moments where you're just being made fun of, and I'm like, "This is delicious. I know it's delicious." Those are moments that wound up being extremely impactful for me because it helped shape a food philosophy much later. I'm not happy that I experienced it, but I was able to do something with it. It was a lot of moments, like going to French cooking school and asking the chef, "Can we learn how to make a sauce with pork stock?" And they're like, "Pork broth is for savages," or something similar to that, And also just being reinforced time and time again that anything that wasn't French, or Italian, or specifically continental American was seen as garbage, it was just quite frankly, full of racism. Whether it was MSG, whether it was the smell of kimchi or fermented products, like all the fermented products that are super cool right now? It was not very cool back then, and in fact, you were vilified for cooking it or using it.

About the podcast

Food & Wine has led the conversation around food, drinks, and hospitality in America and around the world since 1978. Tinfoil Swans continues that legacy with a new series of intimate, informative, surprising, and uplifting interviews with the biggest names in the culinary industry, sharing never-before-heard stories about the successes, struggles, and fork-in-the-road moments that made these personalities who they are today.

Each week, you'll hear from icons and innovators like Guy Fieri, Padma Lakshmi, David Chang, Mashama Bailey, Enrique Olvera, Maneet Chauhan, Shota Nakajima, Antoni Porowski, and other special guests going deep with host Kat Kinsman on their formative experiences; the dishes and meals that made them; their joys, doubts and dreams; and what's on the menu in the future. Tune in for a feast that'll feed your brain and soul — and plenty of wisdom and quotable morsels to savor.

New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen and follow on: Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, Stitcher, iHeart Radio, Amazon Music, TuneIn.

These interview excerpts have been edited for clarity.

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Editor’s Note: The transcript for download does not go through our standard editorial process and may contain inaccuracies and grammatical errors.

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